Every once in a while people send me articles on Youth Ministry. Some catch my eye, some I simply read and delete. An article sent to me recently caught my eye. It comes from a blog and the link is:
http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/youth-groups-destroy-childrens-lives/
Having given you the link, I felt it ok to copy and paste the article to my blog to allow for some dialogue within the article (My comments will be in Blue). This discussion about the effectiveness of Youth Groups has been going on for many many years and I like what this author has to say. So, take some time to read through the article with me, and I'll be making comments as we go along.
Ok, so I [David Fitch] was quoted in the recent book Hipster Christianity as saying these words “Youth Groups Destroy Children’s Lives.” Putting aside the issues I have with the book itself, I admit I was quoted accurately by the book’s author Bret McCracken. I often use the pedagogical tactic that starts out by saying something provocative and then, after I’ve gotten myself into some trouble, and acquired some people’s attention, I try to explain myself. Dave got my attention with the title and opening words.
It’s a bad rhetorical habit. Nonetheless, it works. This time it seems to have attracted some attention so let me take advantage of it and explain what I meant.
I think youth groups often do things that work against the formation of our youth into life with Christ and His Mission. They also soak up huge time and resources in ways that are a detriment to the community life of the church. I think it would be good for parents seeking churches to think through these issues.When I first started Youth Ministry, I might have gotten angry reading this sort of paragraph, but as I've grown and evolved in Youth Ministry, I'd have to say I agree with David. Youth Ministries done in certain ways are a huge time and resource sucker....I'm just curious to know what he means by that,and then compare how Calvin is doing against that backdrop.
I also agree that parents coming to a church should not just be looking for a church with good programming, but should be asking why that programming is happening and is the overall programming leading somewhere. All too often parents are just happy to have something for their children when it comes to church, and that's only 1/2 the equation.
Prototype youth groups are built on the worst of modernist assumptions concerning the way human beings develop as cultural beings. They play into the worse impulses of parents who don’t get what is happening right before their very eyes when their children start to take on the moral formation of the ubiquitous culture at large. (Parents want young hip experts to save their kids – UH THAT DON’T WORK!!).
That's a strong statement, but some would agree with it. When it comes to child development, young people are entering those years where they want to disassociate with their parents as a natural part of life (trust me on this, I have one of those teenagers in my home : ) )
Young people are also wondering about the culture that they are part of and are starting to explore it and ask questions about it in the context of their family, church, and school life. Whether parents get that or not, Youth Groups DO allow maturing Christian young people to be in a place where they can see others doing the same exploring and discuss with other adults (aside from their parents) the issues that relate to their lives. It's never been easy growing up as a teenager, no matter what era you are talking about.
Finally, I don't think David gives parents the credit they deserve today. Sure, there are parents who may leave the Christian education of their children to the church, or a Christian School, but I think many a Christian parent wants to be involved in their children's lives but need help navigating those turbulent years.
Young people are also wondering about the culture that they are part of and are starting to explore it and ask questions about it in the context of their family, church, and school life. Whether parents get that or not, Youth Groups DO allow maturing Christian young people to be in a place where they can see others doing the same exploring and discuss with other adults (aside from their parents) the issues that relate to their lives. It's never been easy growing up as a teenager, no matter what era you are talking about.
Finally, I don't think David gives parents the credit they deserve today. Sure, there are parents who may leave the Christian education of their children to the church, or a Christian School, but I think many a Christian parent wants to be involved in their children's lives but need help navigating those turbulent years.
They think the answer is to somehow get their children to a place where the youth culture attracts them and somehow makes Christianity attractive to their age group. All these things, I argue, work against the child growing up into a vital and real relationship with the living God and what He has done in Christ for the world.
Interesting comment. In my experience [and maybe I'm an anomaly in YM] I think that for some young people this is what keeps them in the church. They have questions, and they hope to get some answers from their church youth group, comprised of young people their age(ish). Nothing wrong with that. The mistake that is made by Youth Pastors/Ministries is that they feel they have to offer only entertaining things to get kids to come to church. Not so. If you are authentic and give kids the Truth, the church can be a great asset to a family raising teenagers.
Interesting comment. In my experience [and maybe I'm an anomaly in YM] I think that for some young people this is what keeps them in the church. They have questions, and they hope to get some answers from their church youth group, comprised of young people their age(ish). Nothing wrong with that. The mistake that is made by Youth Pastors/Ministries is that they feel they have to offer only entertaining things to get kids to come to church. Not so. If you are authentic and give kids the Truth, the church can be a great asset to a family raising teenagers.
I offer the following three comments – all three of which have been said many times by people much smarter than me on these issues. (I now prepare myself for the onslaught of backlash I am sure to get for this post).Hey David, not from me.....b/c there's usually a grain of truth in things and I hope to find some in your next comments......
1.) YOUTH GROUPS FOSTER PEER ORIENTATION. Youth groups segregate the youth from the adults creating programing geared towards them as a separate culture.
I used to do ministry this way, but not any longer. I see many churches in our city offering separate "youth church" when regular services are going on, or even "family church" running parallel to the regular services. I can't say I like that sort of youth/family ministry because there is a richness in doing things intergenerationally.
This creates a gap between the youth and the adults culturally. This then leads the youth to look to their peers for orientation into life. This I contend works against the discipleship of youth into Christ. I contend this peer orientation is disastrous for the lives of our children.
If done incorrectly, David's accusations can happen. If done correctly, and by that I mean youth ministry balanced more intergenerationally, then youth will have adult discipleship influences in their lives, as well as a place where they can simply hang out with their peers and learn and grow in the faith together.
I used to do ministry this way, but not any longer. I see many churches in our city offering separate "youth church" when regular services are going on, or even "family church" running parallel to the regular services. I can't say I like that sort of youth/family ministry because there is a richness in doing things intergenerationally.
This creates a gap between the youth and the adults culturally. This then leads the youth to look to their peers for orientation into life. This I contend works against the discipleship of youth into Christ. I contend this peer orientation is disastrous for the lives of our children.
If done incorrectly, David's accusations can happen. If done correctly, and by that I mean youth ministry balanced more intergenerationally, then youth will have adult discipleship influences in their lives, as well as a place where they can simply hang out with their peers and learn and grow in the faith together.
Of course our culture at large already does this. And our parents generally eat it up. It’s a fact that, due to the economic and cultural changes of modern society, children/teenagers have been segregated in school classrooms, and targeted as a separate niche consumer market by culture industries. As a result, they look increasingly to their peers for a sense of right and wrong, for values, identity, codes of behavior. They have less connection with adults either in or outside immediate family (you need both) as role models for life. This undermines healthy development and fosters hostile and sexualized youth culture. Children lose their true individuality, become overly conformist, desensitized and alienated. Being “cool” matters more to them than anything else. This is American culture! In the words of child psychologist Gordon Neufeld (a book I’d recommend), peer orientation undercuts the necessary parental connection in that parental nurturance cannot get through, is always insecure, cannot bring the child to rest, and is unable to be fulfilled (closeness unmet). As such peer orientation crushes individual development.
Youth groups that play to this peer group dynamic create the playground for all of the above developmental issues to explode. This leads to the next observation.
I can't disagree with David on these points, and only hope that more youth ministries get this point and are trying to be counter-cultural on these issues. Youth need adults in their lives (especially their parents) who can help them navigate the culture they live in and how they can be transformers of it.
I can't disagree with David on these points, and only hope that more youth ministries get this point and are trying to be counter-cultural on these issues. Youth need adults in their lives (especially their parents) who can help them navigate the culture they live in and how they can be transformers of it.
2.) YOUTH GROUPS UNDERCUT WHOLISTIC COMMUNITY FROM WHICH A CHILD CAN LEARN FAITH IN CHRIST AS A WAY
As Neil Cole has put it so well here (click on “What about kids in Organic Church
Two thumbs up from me on this statement. These living relationships need to be more than just relationships with each other as Youth (even if our youth would rather that be the case all the time).
That's why we at Calvin offer soup and buns and games times with our Seniors and Intergenerational Student Education times (parents and their children do church education together) and intergenerational Learning Opportunities (aka Mission Trips). That's why we've hosted a Youth Unlimited Special Needs SERVE site for the past three years and many of the mentors that help our special needs participants have ended up coming from our youth group. They need to know they can be trusted in the life of the church and contribute. They shine during SERVE.
Once Jesus becomes infotainment,
(ok, I have to admit that infotainment is an interesting word and one I had to look up).
once it becomes a program, detached from real relationships, it loses its reality.
Absolutely agree. Any ministry in a church should not just be a program, but should be about connecting people with people who are in turn connecting with God. It's all about relationships, relationships, relationships...
It takes on the character of a learning experience in competition with other learning experiences. That’s a competition I’m just not interested in. In the midst of all these learning programs, children are consistently learning their allegiances from real life interactions with adults they respect. They sense insincerity and/or lack of integrity immediately. The life in Christ becomes attractive through the irresistable love of Christ that is shared visibly in and around our life together. If children are not immersed in this world, chances are they will find church boring and irrelevant. They will not withstand the discipline necessary to be shaped into something more than immediate gratifications. They will not have the wherewithal to give it time and learn what “Jesus is Lord” means as that reality by which we live our lives into His Kingdom.
Yep. Faith formation is hard work and should not be done in isolation from other generations. Iron sharpens Iron. : )
Two thumbs up from me on this statement. These living relationships need to be more than just relationships with each other as Youth (even if our youth would rather that be the case all the time).
That's why we at Calvin offer soup and buns and games times with our Seniors and Intergenerational Student Education times (parents and their children do church education together) and intergenerational Learning Opportunities (aka Mission Trips). That's why we've hosted a Youth Unlimited Special Needs SERVE site for the past three years and many of the mentors that help our special needs participants have ended up coming from our youth group. They need to know they can be trusted in the life of the church and contribute. They shine during SERVE.
Once Jesus becomes infotainment,
(ok, I have to admit that infotainment is an interesting word and one I had to look up).
once it becomes a program, detached from real relationships, it loses its reality.
Absolutely agree. Any ministry in a church should not just be a program, but should be about connecting people with people who are in turn connecting with God. It's all about relationships, relationships, relationships...
It takes on the character of a learning experience in competition with other learning experiences. That’s a competition I’m just not interested in. In the midst of all these learning programs, children are consistently learning their allegiances from real life interactions with adults they respect. They sense insincerity and/or lack of integrity immediately. The life in Christ becomes attractive through the irresistable love of Christ that is shared visibly in and around our life together. If children are not immersed in this world, chances are they will find church boring and irrelevant. They will not withstand the discipline necessary to be shaped into something more than immediate gratifications. They will not have the wherewithal to give it time and learn what “Jesus is Lord” means as that reality by which we live our lives into His Kingdom.
Yep. Faith formation is hard work and should not be done in isolation from other generations. Iron sharpens Iron. : )
3.) YOUTH GROUPS TOO OFTEN TRY TO ATTRACT YOUTH PLAYING TO THEIR WORST INTERESTS.
It’s a mistake to try to “attract” youth to discipleship with either social occasions that play on their sexual insecurities or music entertainment that plays on their desire to be “cool.” There will be times I am sure to attend the occasional rock concert or have the occasional social time together. But what the church should do for its youth most of all is foster spaces for meeting God where they can be trained to listen for God and commune with Him in silence, in prayer.
Strong words, but I think David is suggesting balance once again. If we ONLY entertain youth, we've missed the mark. We need to challenge our youth to grow in faith and life. Prayer, worship, fasting and other disciplines are a sure way to do that, but I don't agree that this is the only way.
We don't want to entertain, but we also want youth to see that faith formation is not like having a root canal. Whatever we offer, we should want it to be more than just something that the world offers (though a simple evening ski trip can become a wonderful time for deep faith conversations if youth pastors/leaders are trusted by their teens and are willing to take risks by starting the conversation in the first place).
Youth Ministries that don't want to entertain take much more work, but aren't our youth worth it?
Mark Yaconelli does a great job explaining this basic thing. I have seen this basic concept transform youth groups overnight in churches of some of my students.
I applaud the fact that David is challenging us to go deeper with our kids. In an age of entertainment overload the church needs to position itself as more than another social option for our youth. It needs to be a place where they know they are safe to explore issues of faith and life with each other, and with the church community as a whole.
My only comment here would be that it's easier to think about, focus on, and implement this sort of intentional ministry when you have paid staff to do it. Many churches don't have that luxury, and I take my hat off to churches who manage to fulfill what David is suggesting using dedicated volunteers. They are priceless (as are the one's we have here at Calvin BTW : ) )
I also think the other best thing we can do for youth is organize mission trips (what I've come to term "Learning Opportunities" now) to places in need around the world where youth come together to sacrifice and make a difference for the kingdom. This kind of mission trip (as opposed to a resort-like vacation) is a spiritual practice we must regularly encourage and fund in our churches. Again, I have singularly seen this practice transform the lives of youth in churches I have observed or worked with.
I agree with David, but would like to take that challenge one step further. If we are truly going to adhere to David's comments about surrounding our youth with a church community, then "Learning Opportunities" should also be done in a community context. We've gone to Peru three times over six years for our Trips, and a beautiful partnership with the church there is beginning to grow.
It began as a "youth group mission trip." It has evolved into an "Intergenerational Learning Opportunity." Youth only mission trips are good, but they miss the mark. Have a youth go on a trip and then come home and relate that to their parents, and 9 times out of 10 you'll get single word answers. : ) Go together as father/son, mother/daughter, grandparent/ grandson, and you come home with shared experiences that change lives in a much richer way.
Generally speaking, we need to be involved in mission in our everyday lives and take our children with us as we minister in our everyday lives (the other day I suggested to someone take their children to the hospital with them in praying for the sick – this was not a good idea because evidently our children bring germs that adults don’t … oh well).
I like this thought by David. One of the "issues" I continue to have with coming home from a great Learning Opportunity is making it "stick". After many of these, that's still something that needs work. Being involved in missions every day is a refreshing way to think of things, and taking our children with us is even more out there, but I like the challenge.
I'd love to see our church have a one day, or multi-day, mission event where families go into our city. These things should be happening several times a year, intergenerationally, and in-between the big trips.
Strong words, but I think David is suggesting balance once again. If we ONLY entertain youth, we've missed the mark. We need to challenge our youth to grow in faith and life. Prayer, worship, fasting and other disciplines are a sure way to do that, but I don't agree that this is the only way.
We don't want to entertain, but we also want youth to see that faith formation is not like having a root canal. Whatever we offer, we should want it to be more than just something that the world offers (though a simple evening ski trip can become a wonderful time for deep faith conversations if youth pastors/leaders are trusted by their teens and are willing to take risks by starting the conversation in the first place).
Youth Ministries that don't want to entertain take much more work, but aren't our youth worth it?
Mark Yaconelli does a great job explaining this basic thing. I have seen this basic concept transform youth groups overnight in churches of some of my students.
I applaud the fact that David is challenging us to go deeper with our kids. In an age of entertainment overload the church needs to position itself as more than another social option for our youth. It needs to be a place where they know they are safe to explore issues of faith and life with each other, and with the church community as a whole.
My only comment here would be that it's easier to think about, focus on, and implement this sort of intentional ministry when you have paid staff to do it. Many churches don't have that luxury, and I take my hat off to churches who manage to fulfill what David is suggesting using dedicated volunteers. They are priceless (as are the one's we have here at Calvin BTW : ) )
I also think the other best thing we can do for youth is organize mission trips (what I've come to term "Learning Opportunities" now) to places in need around the world where youth come together to sacrifice and make a difference for the kingdom. This kind of mission trip (as opposed to a resort-like vacation) is a spiritual practice we must regularly encourage and fund in our churches. Again, I have singularly seen this practice transform the lives of youth in churches I have observed or worked with.
I agree with David, but would like to take that challenge one step further. If we are truly going to adhere to David's comments about surrounding our youth with a church community, then "Learning Opportunities" should also be done in a community context. We've gone to Peru three times over six years for our Trips, and a beautiful partnership with the church there is beginning to grow.
It began as a "youth group mission trip." It has evolved into an "Intergenerational Learning Opportunity." Youth only mission trips are good, but they miss the mark. Have a youth go on a trip and then come home and relate that to their parents, and 9 times out of 10 you'll get single word answers. : ) Go together as father/son, mother/daughter, grandparent/ grandson, and you come home with shared experiences that change lives in a much richer way.
Generally speaking, we need to be involved in mission in our everyday lives and take our children with us as we minister in our everyday lives (the other day I suggested to someone take their children to the hospital with them in praying for the sick – this was not a good idea because evidently our children bring germs that adults don’t … oh well).
I like this thought by David. One of the "issues" I continue to have with coming home from a great Learning Opportunity is making it "stick". After many of these, that's still something that needs work. Being involved in missions every day is a refreshing way to think of things, and taking our children with us is even more out there, but I like the challenge.
I'd love to see our church have a one day, or multi-day, mission event where families go into our city. These things should be happening several times a year, intergenerationally, and in-between the big trips.
In closing, I believe the youth ministry of a church is vitally important.
Well, I confess, I'm biased and do this for a living, so yes, I concur. : )
But we must discern carefully what we are doing.
I equally concur here.
Whether we have three youth or fifty, we need youth leaders to do things to foster authentic adult relationships with the youth.
When I was in Sarnia, I had 85 youth, 12 youth leaders, and about 12 student leaders. As I look back on those times, I see that success happened because we invested in the lives of teens intentionally as a community. Many of those youth are now active in churches (no, not necessarily in the CRC), even ministers. Cool stuff.
Here in Ottawa, the size of the group has been as large as 12, as few as 3. In all of it, we once again have decided to be relational in nature. We do have a group that meets separately every Tuesday evening, and they have a hoot together. Friends invite friends and we have grown. I make no apologies for that, and think it's a vital part of our youth ministry strategy.
We struggle with trying not to entertain, and have our moments of success, and yes, failure. However, we have also realized that the rest of the church community would be missing something if our youth weren't actively involved in many aspects of our church life.
Hence, they are in an intergenerational praise band, some teach church school together, many are running our sound system and video elements of worship, we have an intergenerational church education component (which is hard on families due to busy schedules and such, but they have stuck it out. In all of that they interact with other generations within our church community. They don't know it I think, but they are actually teaching we as adults many things.
I also know that these wonderful youth need space to be just that - young. A safe place to hang out together, with minimal - yet intentional - adult supervision to simply have fun, or be challenged in their walk with God.
Let us make the community aware that we ARE A COMMUNITY and we have to treat our youth as among us and indeed take responsibility to love them, pray for them, watch over them, initiate them and model Christ before them and with them.
When our children are baptized we make promises to raise them to come to a clear understanding of who Jesus is in their life. Many of the things we now do in Calvin's Youth Ministry help with this. Can we do better? Yep. In fact we are trying to figure out who we are and where we might be going as a church, and this may change how we do things even more in the area of youth ministry. That excites me. I hope it does too for you who are members of Calvin CRC.
Let us foster safe spaces for them to ask all their questions and learn how to listen for God in their lives. Let us do mission trips and bring them with us in all the ways we participate in Christ’sMission
As a P.S. to that, in order to bring them with us, we need to be willing to go ahead of them. We need show our youth that we are serious about OUR relationship with Jesus and in that, things get infectious and the Gospel is transferred from generation to generation.
We ALSO need to realize that at times youth MAY actually be ahead of us, and we need to follow them. That's the true mark of a church community willing to "participate in Christ's Mission in the world...."
My challenge to those in Calvin is (and I'm speaking to myself as well): Are you willing to go? AND Are you willing to recognize when it might be time to follow?
One last thing....in all of this there is one thing I fear. In getting our youth involved in the church community, let's not assume that we as adults can sit back and watch. We ALL need to be active in service in the Kingdom....all of us. If not, we are not complete as a body, and we all will suffer much more than what David is suggesting here.
At Life on the Vine, these are the things we’re ever working on.
Amen!
I hope you enjoyed the interaction, and maybe you have further thoughts on all of this. email me at youthpastor@calvincrc.ca or post a comment on my blog.
Pastor Ron Hosmar
Well, I confess, I'm biased and do this for a living, so yes, I concur. : )
But we must discern carefully what we are doing.
I equally concur here.
Whether we have three youth or fifty, we need youth leaders to do things to foster authentic adult relationships with the youth.
When I was in Sarnia, I had 85 youth, 12 youth leaders, and about 12 student leaders. As I look back on those times, I see that success happened because we invested in the lives of teens intentionally as a community. Many of those youth are now active in churches (no, not necessarily in the CRC), even ministers. Cool stuff.
Here in Ottawa, the size of the group has been as large as 12, as few as 3. In all of it, we once again have decided to be relational in nature. We do have a group that meets separately every Tuesday evening, and they have a hoot together. Friends invite friends and we have grown. I make no apologies for that, and think it's a vital part of our youth ministry strategy.
We struggle with trying not to entertain, and have our moments of success, and yes, failure. However, we have also realized that the rest of the church community would be missing something if our youth weren't actively involved in many aspects of our church life.
Hence, they are in an intergenerational praise band, some teach church school together, many are running our sound system and video elements of worship, we have an intergenerational church education component (which is hard on families due to busy schedules and such, but they have stuck it out. In all of that they interact with other generations within our church community. They don't know it I think, but they are actually teaching we as adults many things.
I also know that these wonderful youth need space to be just that - young. A safe place to hang out together, with minimal - yet intentional - adult supervision to simply have fun, or be challenged in their walk with God.
Let us make the community aware that we ARE A COMMUNITY and we have to treat our youth as among us and indeed take responsibility to love them, pray for them, watch over them, initiate them and model Christ before them and with them.
When our children are baptized we make promises to raise them to come to a clear understanding of who Jesus is in their life. Many of the things we now do in Calvin's Youth Ministry help with this. Can we do better? Yep. In fact we are trying to figure out who we are and where we might be going as a church, and this may change how we do things even more in the area of youth ministry. That excites me. I hope it does too for you who are members of Calvin CRC.
Let us foster safe spaces for them to ask all their questions and learn how to listen for God in their lives. Let us do mission trips and bring them with us in all the ways we participate in Christ’s
As a P.S. to that, in order to bring them with us, we need to be willing to go ahead of them. We need show our youth that we are serious about OUR relationship with Jesus and in that, things get infectious and the Gospel is transferred from generation to generation.
We ALSO need to realize that at times youth MAY actually be ahead of us, and we need to follow them. That's the true mark of a church community willing to "participate in Christ's Mission in the world...."
My challenge to those in Calvin is (and I'm speaking to myself as well): Are you willing to go? AND Are you willing to recognize when it might be time to follow?
One last thing....in all of this there is one thing I fear. In getting our youth involved in the church community, let's not assume that we as adults can sit back and watch. We ALL need to be active in service in the Kingdom....all of us. If not, we are not complete as a body, and we all will suffer much more than what David is suggesting here.
At Life on the Vine, these are the things we’re ever working on.
Amen!
I hope you enjoyed the interaction, and maybe you have further thoughts on all of this. email me at youthpastor@calvincrc.ca or post a comment on my blog.
Pastor Ron Hosmar
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